Mark Burik (00:00.994)
Hey everybody. And welcome to the Better at Beach podcast. My name is Mark Burick and today we have as a guest in our Complete Coach Academy, the Complete Coach Academy members are going to be able to ask live Q and A questions at the end of our interview. If you're interested in that, just head to betteratbeach .com forward slash coach, and you'll get access to all of our workout programs, all of our skill and strategy courses and weekly meetings. have two meetings a week, one for coaches.
one for players. So if you want to do technique and workout video analysis, you would head into the players meetings. And if you want to learn high level strategy, team management, and get the experience and strategic talk, and maybe sometimes some business development, then you would come into the complete coach meetings. today I'm thrilled to have one of my long -term competitors, a guy that I looked up to a long time, a guy that has already done everything that I'm trying to do. we have.
on the line with us, John Mayer, head coach of LMU. Welcome. How are you doing? Thanks for having me. Good to see you. Yeah, you too. Is it weird to be on the other end of a podcast? Yeah, it's more uncomfortable for sure. I like asking questions, not being in the hot seat. That's good. how many episodes are we still running Coach Your Brains Out and how many episodes are you guys now up to? We are, and I don't know.
we started in May of 2015 and we've put out something every week since every once in a like a rerun, but so whatever that adds up to. That's crazy. what, when you guys talk about, so I've listened to many episodes, so I know like all of the coaches and all the strategy and all of the learning development motor, motor learning science and everything that.
I've heard on the episodes that I've listened to, but if you could summarize Coach Your Brains Out and what you guys do on that podcast for anybody listening who is a podcast listener and wants to switch on over to your podcast as soon as you're done here, what do you guys talk about on Coach Your Brains Out? Yeah, it's evolved through the years. When it first started, I was still playing, so was a little bit more player -centric, but there's still that angle. know, Billy's still playing, and I mean, I still think of myself as an athlete. So there's that player lens, but definitely,
Mark Burik (02:25.548)
the coach driven, you know, trying to learn from the best coaches, whether it's indoor, beach, international, and then people outside of that, you know, we've talked to motor learning professors, we've talked to authors, we've talked to strength coaches, so all sorts of areas around high performance. But basically just like someone that Billy or I want to learn from, we're going to ask them and if they're willing to come on, we throw some questions at them. Nice. Now, was there, if you could...
This is probably tough for that many episodes, but top three or one or two of your most surprising, enlightening or game changing interviews that you did, where you learned from a player or a coach or a professor that you're like, man, that changed how I think about things, whether it was in that moment or for the rest of your career. Yeah. That's a really big question. That's tough.
The one that came to mind was a guy named Casey Crider. He played indoor at Pepperdine and he coached at Miami and now he's at UMBC, he's the head coach there. And he has a real background in motor learning. He started his PhD and so he introduced this idea of ecological dynamics, which is a more modern approach to skill acquisition. And it really shifted, I had.
been mentored and had learned in a more traditional way, kind of the informational processing view of acquiring skill, which is like you train the brain and then you repeat that. it's more about repeatable movement where, yeah, he introduced this just kind of concept that for six months I was in a tailspin, questioning everything I believed. And now I'm drinking the Kool -Aid and coaching that way. so yeah, I mean, the other concept is more.
about having a relationship with your environment and adapting to different circumstances. I mean, there's a lot of depth to it, but that specific episode started me on a path where I really explored coaching from that worldview. Now, J Plummer, who got to be an assistant with you, certainly kind of he said,
Mark Burik (04:43.256)
Pretty much the exact same thing. He's like, this has changed the way I coach and the way that I think about it. he gave me a book to read that I've gotten halfway through, but now I forgot the title. Cause I read it two years ago. How we learned to move. Maybe Rob Gray, how we learned to move. that it was, it was one of those, but it talked a lot about contrast training and then external versus, versus internal cues. Maybe the language of coaching was Nick Winkleman more of like a textbook sort of. Yeah. Yeah. The language of coaching.
And so for everybody who's new and who's listening, are you still in the process of focusing on external and versus internal cues? And could you explain to anyone new and me what that means and give examples of that as it? Yeah. Nick Winkleman's book, I strongly recommend we had him on the podcast. He's unbelievable.
really sharp guy and really good communicator. yeah, researchers in motor learning science have been studying this. This is probably one of the more well -documented areas of motor learning science where they do all sorts of studies on having an external focus of attention or an internal focus of intention. So an external focus of attention would be to focus on anything outside of my body. So it could be focused on a target. So if I'm passing, I have a spot where I'm trying to make the ball land. Or if I'm serving, I have.
you know, I'm aiming at the other player's shoulder or a piece of sand. So I'm focused on something outside of my body. An internal focus of attention would be focused on a body part. So I'm thinking when I'm hitting a serve, I'm thinking about, you know, a 45 degree load or have a big open hand or anything that's related to movement. There's more nuances within that, but that's like a really broad. So they've done it all sorts of fields, volleyball, darts, tennis.
And the same thing has been replicated where when the coach or the researcher gives someone an internal focus of attention, they say, okay, when you pass this ball, you know, think about your hands and wrists or think about forming an angle with your arms. Or when you hit this golf club, think about your hips, twist, you know, whatever like traditional queuing would be. And then the other group, the external group, they'd give them
Mark Burik (07:04.93)
you know, external focus, you know, when you're passing this ball, try to make it land in this spot or when you're hitting this putt, you know, try to make it, you know, aim for that hole over there or even, I don't want to go too far down it, but, so when those studies have been done over and over and over and over, it's been shown that an external focus of attention leads to higher levels of leads to more accuracy, leads to better performance and internal focus of attention. It's not like you worse.
they also improve, but just not at the same rate as an external. Some of the downsides of, well, I'll stop there. could, give me a rabbit hole here. Nah, I love hearing it. Because the next question, and I want you to keep continuing there, because all the people in this meeting and who are listening and focused on this, there are a lot of coaches that we have in our audience. I think we're about 50 % coaches. the question that I have later after you finish that explanation,
is going to be, well, does that eradicate teaching technique? No. It just means being a little more creative. It kind of depends what you see as technique. No, I mean, I guess to step back to give a little more reason for it, and then I'll answer that even more clearly, hopefully. So there's a...
Another part of the internal focus is when they put people under stress. So, so like, it's like a dart task, like you're throwing darts and they give you an internal focus and then they have you throw darts and they say, you know, if you miss, you have to pay $20 or if you, if you hit your spot, you get $20, you know, researchers will come up. So under stress, when someone has learned internally, they it's called reinvestment theory. So you, you reinvest in the way you've learned. So if I reinvest.
And if I learn through internal models, then I'm going to start thinking about my elbow and my shoulder and my fall, you know, fall through. there's, you know, it's just been found that people choke, you know, paralysis through analysis, like the stuff you see where people get really rigid. but where you've learned in a more implicit learning environment where you learn without even realizing you're learning with external focuses, then under stress, you're not reinvesting on your body. You're just.
Mark Burik (09:30.232)
target focused or goal focused and you're to perform more fluidly and more, yeah, better. So yeah, I think that's just another argument for like why to focus on external. But yeah, teaching technique, no, so I mean, that would take us maybe into the ecological stuff where there's this idea of the constraints led approach. And I can give you an example. So a constraint would be, I'm,
I'm offering something new into the environment and that is pushing you to move in a new way. So, for example, if I, if I, think James probably use this one, this is an easy example where if I'm observing a passer and when they pass, they're popping up, like, and more importantly, the ball is not going where I want it to go. The ball, you if they're popping up and the pass is good, then let's keep going. But if the path, the ball's going backwards and we see this movement that seems ineffective.
then we're going to constrain that movement. We're going to try to take that away. And we're not going to do it by telling them the answer. Hey, put your shoulders down or move your hands here. We're going to try to avoid those internal ones. And we would give them a constraint and we'd put a towel on their shoulders. So we put this towel on their shoulders. And now we can keep the feedback external. Hey, see if you can see the server's hand or see if you can pass to this target. But while you do that, you got to try to keep the towel on. So they're going to have this external focus of attention.
without me talking about body parts. And then they're going to have to figure out how to move in a more effective way because of this constraint. And to use like the, you know, you get silly with the scientific language is like, you're going to destabilize the current movement solution. So I'm saying this movement solution of popping up is ineffective. So I'm going to destabilize that by putting a towel there. And now when you pass, if the towel comes off, that's giving you some feedback. Okay, I made that move. I've got to figure out how do I keep, I got a problem solve. I've got to.
Interactive environment figure out how do keep this towel on and I can find a more effective solution without going to those internal cues. It's hard. That's a challenge to find as a coach, all of the different ways to get them when you know, it's a, it's a body problem, but you're trying to figure out a way for them to learn the fastest and you can't mention body.
Mark Burik (11:54.51)
then you've got to find a whole like different vocabulary than I think 99 % of coaches have learned and gone through there. For most of their coaching and playing careers. Yeah, yeah, it's it's challenging and I mean it's challenging for the players to get better too. So we should challenge ourselves as coaches like let's let's be in the same learning environment they are and it's a anytime you're getting outside of traditions, it's going to be. Uncomfortable and uncomfortable as a coach.
But there's lots of tools you can use. I may give you another example. You can create analogies. And this is that Nick Winkleman guy creates analogies and stories which are external. you know, if we saw a pastor who was really noisy, you know, maybe the typical would be to give some internal cues, you know, try to keep your feet on the sand or try to keep your platform really stable, really simple. And some of those are helpful, you know. But if you wanted to go even more external...
You'd say, okay, we built this glass ceiling and we put this glass ceiling right at the height of the antenna. Can you see that glass ceiling? Like really try to make it come alive. Okay. When you pass the ball, you're not allowed to have the ball break our ceiling. It'll shatter and it'll come in our eyes. And so with that external cue and with that analogy, that story, you're going to see movement change. Like if they're really noisy, the ball is going to hit the ceiling and they're going to have to start to...
the ecological term would be self -organized. They're going have to organize their body in more effective ways without confining them and saying, there's only one way to do this. With their own unique limbs and movement, their movement history, they're going be able to work through, how do I keep this ball lower so my setter can set it without hitting that glass ceiling? I think the other real benefit of this teaching style is, and it's a big shift, is as a coach, you become
the provider of problems instead of the provider of solutions. In the traditional model, I'm providing solutions as a coach. saying, here's the answer, do it this way. And then as a player, I become really reliant on that. And then when I get into stressful situations, I am fragile. Like I'm not able to problem solve. And, I go to the coach, what do I do now? And you're stuck where if you learn in an environment where it's, there's this implicit learning where I'm solving problems where I've got to figure out how to keep that.
Mark Burik (14:20.354)
fall under the glass ceiling. I develop, you know, maybe better movement solutions, better technique, but I also developed this kind of soft skill of being a better problem solver. You know, I've gone through hard things in practice. I've worked through a challenge that my coach gave me independently, you know, with their guidance, but, but I did it on my own. And I think you're, getting a two for one instead of just a one for one. I like that. That's all that, all that rings to me. Cause
Half of what I follow on Instagram is like business and leadership management and all of the high end bosses. just say, I don't, when my employees call me and say, how do I fix this? I go, that's your job. That's literally your job. Your job is to figure out the problem. And then all I'd like to know is they call it the one three one is, what were you trying to do? And what was the goal?
And the three things, the three things that you considered and the one thing that you chose and why, like, that's all I'd like to know so that I understand your thinking process. But if you come to me for answers, I'm not training you to be a next level employee. I'm not training you to rise above our company and be able to move on from there. And I'm making you so dependent on me. I can never exit or go on vacation. And I think.
When it comes to volleyball, when we translate that it's in college and in university volleyball and in the FIVB, you don't have a coach in your box. everything relies on you figuring out your own problems in, every situation. And, know, I, I imagine that you get some players and tell me if I'm wrong, do you get some players that just go.
He doesn't coach me. just asks questions and do you like lose them? Because I've, I've experienced that where they're like, I'm asking you for help. This is why I'm here. And it's like, I'm helping you in the best way you should be helped. And I know that that's going to be painful. but we have to figure that out. So do you have any issues with, I don't know, buy into that type of, or how long does it take somebody to feel independently strong to say like, okay, where do I gotta get? All right, I'll figure out how to get there.
Mark Burik (16:39.958)
Yeah, no, I think it's a real challenge, especially based on their learning history. And like I said, the traditions within coaching, if they're used to a certain model, if they're used to someone telling them all the answers, then that's going to feel very comfortable. And that's going to be the space they want to be in. And I think that's the expectation. So, yeah, I mean, it's a little bit easier here at LMU where I get to create a culture. I have returners. We've had some success. People have seen themselves.
Improve in this model, so there's there's more buying when I initially introduced it. There was there's reluctance and push back and. Lots of people I want more feedback on more feedback. So, yeah, it took time and it took time to took time to make the change. But I think they found out as we made the change, they feel more like more empowered. More capable better under stress.
But yeah, no, it takes time and I think that's it's really important. That it's not just it's not my journey. To impose on the learner like it's it's our experience, so I need to meet them where they're at, you know, and if they're, you know, in a space where they're really, really coached reliant, then you know, I'm gonna gonna find the right challenge point. I'm gonna push them a little bit that direction to start. And then we're gonna have conversations and talk about like what sort of benefits would there be? You know if.
If you were less reliant on me and if we challenged you in different ways to be adaptable and then we'd slowly move the goalpost and slowly get them hopefully to that direction. But I think this idea of like co -design like us designing activities together, me adapting my coaching style to them is really important for a high level coach. don't think you can. I can get pretty stubborn with stuff and pretty like set in my ways, but I tried to be better about.
You know, being open to to where they're at. So when I feel like when I've worked with professional teams where I get less time to develop the culture and. You know, returners, I really have to. You meet them where they're at. We're here at LMU. I'm I'm still doing that. Just we're just in such a different space as a culture. Like, they're just the returners and some success. It's a little bit easier to to do that. So it's definitely dependent on your environment and the people you're working with.
Mark Burik (19:05.708)
Yeah, I've always said, the way that I coach for the camps and for classes and people who are enjoying it. I get to work with them for a day or three days. It would be quite different than the way that I would coach a full program. One person I have to make happy every single day so that they come back the next day because you know, that's providing my family. So it has made me definitely a more.
positive high fivey coach than I was prior to that. You know, I brought in kind of my mentality as a player, whereas get the work done period. Like this is what you got to do. Just go. And if you are, I think if you're stuck in, this is my system and players either thrive or die in my system, then okay.
You can do that from a program or from a club standpoint, but you will be able to coach less players because players will certainly drop. But if you become adaptable as a coach and say, I need to have more, how are you conversations with this person, this person, all I need to do is just directly challenge them, tell them to bang their head against the wall for a half hour. And they will, then I have to be more adaptable so that I can work with more players. So for you, do you think.
You error or flow more to the, this is my system side or more to the, I'm a different coach for each player on my team side.
Hmm, I say both. Sure. I am very principle based where I have, you know, an evidence based theory to for like my framework to guide my decisions. But within this, like, ecological space, when you coach from an ecological perspective, you're saying there isn't one right way to do something. So I'd be totally contradictory if I came in and this.
Mark Burik (21:14.444)
You know, I'm telling them, this is the right way to learn. So I think it's a little bit of both. I think our greatest ability is our adaptability and it's an important skill in life and in coaching. So I have my framework. I have the principles, but they're very, they're going to be very different depending on the environment. If I'm doing a camp versus my college team versus a seven year old, you know, I,
I think the better, the better you become as a coach, I think the more schools you have to respond to different environments, different situations. And I think you want some principles to guide you to help you reframe those interactions and decisions you make in all those different environments. But it's so important. think what you said, you you've got to, you've got to know the human and learner. And if I'm just like, this is the way and they're in a totally different space. And even if I'm using the most like
the top sports psychology, the top motor learning, and they're not interested. Like it's, could be the world's greatest practice design, but they're not going to get any better because there's no motivation or, or they don't feel hurt or they don't feel a part of the process. I'd rather adapt to my principles and have them feel motivated and a part of this process. And then maybe the next day we, you know, we go one, one inch further. So yeah, I don't know that quite answered, but.
I think both are really important to have your principles and then, to be someone who's curious and someone who's willing to adjust them based on the situation. Kind of like the one quote I just read was, be fixed in the vision. Like steadfast in the vision, but flexible with the path. That's a good way to put it. Yeah. I like that.
If somebody's coming to LMU as a player, what changes are they most? So this is probably talking now to some coaches, but a couple more players who might be interested in coming to college. What are the biggest shell shock changes when they come number one to university D1 top 10 or top five in the U S right now? top five.
Mark Burik (23:35.362)
top five program in the country. What's the biggest shell shock for them when they first arrive and are getting into that program? And then if you could say the difference between just getting to college and then specifically coming to LMU to play for you. That's interesting. It's probably different for each player. I think specifically for our program, probably the lack of...
Mark Burik (24:02.338)
being put in a box or being like forced to do things a certain way that like we're there's tons of creativity and exploration and autonomy. But probably, mean, just the jump, like the level, you know, the speed of play, the athleticism for your freshmen coming in, it's overwhelming seeing the level of the athlete. Well, what is that difference between a senior in college and then the
junior seniors and elite performers who are freshmen to sophomore. Like, is it a physical difference? Is it a knowledge difference? Is it a lack of errors difference? I think there's a lot of time, but there's definitely a physical difference, but probably more of a, like you learn, you you learn how to, like you did, you learn how to be a pro. I think that's a big compliment. Even if you're an amateur in college, like you can see someone who's a pro is that they, they go about all aspects of their day.
at a high level, like at a level of excellence. Like I'm gonna make sure I hydrate at high level. I'm gonna make sure I sleep at a high level. I'm gonna make sure when I come into practice, I'm clear on the three objectives that I'm gonna be locked in on. After practice, I'm gonna journal. know, it's just, I think the commitment to excellence, the clearness of just what it means to be a pro. Where I think when you see
Yeah, high school player coming in. The all those intangibles. Haven't been as important like they've been able to be successful with their athleticism or the system they're in. But to maintain that and be consistent at a higher level, you know you gotta do all the little things well. Just like you and I did to try to survive with. All the professional players we played against, right? It's like OK, I'm not. We're not as big or jump as high or you know, so what things?
Can we do to have a competitive advantage? Yeah. I think, you know, one of the things that I always say to every athlete is showing up to practice is the bare minimum requirement just to put on the practice shirt. Like not to put, not to get in the game, not to start, not to beat everybody else, but now, okay, you've got 10 hours of practice a week and you've got three hours for lifting. You want to get ahead. Double that.
Mark Burik (26:28.078)
You know, a way to get the reps for me. was anytime everybody went to get water and chatted for a second, I throw some on my face and then just start jump -serving. You know, like, so I got an extra 10 to 15 jump serves every practice, every practice, and then you annual annualize that. So now I've gotten close to a thousand extra jump serves in a year compared to somebody who took their time at the water cooler. Yeah. And I, I, people don't.
understand that and it's tough to get that into, I guess, kids is that and parents to say, hey, if you're not ripping the ball out of your kids hands to get them to the dinner table, I just don't know if they're going to be a D1 athlete because they're not addicted enough. And by the time they get there, they're not hooked enough on the sport. you can't be a parent of a 13, 14, 15 year old and be like, my kid's going to go D1.
And you've never had to yell at them to come back in or stop bumping in their living room. Do you think that's true? That's something that I think, but it might be just from personal experience and the fact that I want everybody to work as hard as they can. But do you think that the kids who become D1 become bro are the ones that are hooked on that sport? That's a huge factor. Recruiting is really difficult because it's hard to see that intangible. You can see.
The arm speed, you can see the lateral movement. You can see their platform control, but you can't see like how much film they're watching. You can't see what they're dreaming about before they go to bed. You can't, you don't know how much they're going to professional matches and watching and studying it. And so I some of the best players we've had, like I would say probably one of our best players the last four years, she just graduated. had the lowest vertical on our team, probably the slowest laterally lateral quickness, like really good hand control.
I mean, really skilled fine motor skills. But if you looked at on huddle, the amount of video she watched, was, you know, times four of any player. The scouting reports she could create for teams was just next level. She was, you know, just an unbelievable teammate and she just was volleyball obsessed and no one recruited her because you just don't know that stuff. Right. And we got lucky with it. So that stuff really matters, especially, especially
Mark Burik (28:51.79)
you know, based on your athleticism. I you could probably be more athletic and get away with being average at some of that. But I think there's also a space to be a kid. Like it depends on what age when you're 10 and 12, like play lots of sports and countries and you don't have to, you don't have to be volleyball obsessed then. But at some point, if you want to be elite, like there's, that's the dark side of it, right? You're to make all these sacrifices and you're going to miss out on stuff, but yeah, you're going to be so obsessed that you're going to want to do everything you can to be the best you can be at it.
Mentally, don't know. Did you feel this way? never, I never felt the word sacrifice. Like it was just what I wanted to do. It was all sports, but there was always a ball in my hand. was always in my driveway, just playing or throwing our living room was on any given day, one of 10 different sports fields. You know? so I never felt like this is a
Sacrifice, it was always just the way to get better and be where I wanted to be. And I think some people do say sacrifice. I think parents especially are kind of sacrificial with today's modern juniors programs and $2 ,000 tournament weekends, which are brutal on their own. I don't think of it as sacrifice.
Do you really believe that? I think would depend, probably for the parents is sacrifice. And I mean, you're sacrificing certain things, like maybe some relationships and, but yeah, it goes to who you are and what's important to you. You know, for some kid and adults, fun could mean eating ice cream, watching Netflix. For another kid or adult, fun could mean running a marathon and puking their brains out like this is the best, like, you know, so fun. yeah, just, I think so dependent on.
The person their life experiences, the mentors, you the things that have been put in front of them. And you don't know when that that's going to happen. You know, it could be some switch that that gets ignited at any point. And like I said, there's balance to all this. Like, there's a dark side to being so driven in one direction. But I think to be like the best in the world is something you have to be a little crazy.
Mark Burik (31:13.886)
Yeah, probably. Have you ever heard that there's one podcast that Joe Rogan did with a fight coach? And this is going back to that conversation of training athletes in their different personalities or learning abilities. But this UFC coach said, you know, I basically put athletes into different categories and probably messing it up. But one of them was the artist. The other one was the warrior.
The other one was the, I think it was just the athlete and the other one was a soldier. like a warrior just like wants to work as hard as they possibly can and go into battle. The soldier just wants, give me instructions. I'll do it. The artist, you need to let them be creative. Like if you try to lock in a technique versus
Getting them there, like that's how you have to coach them, ease up on them. And maybe one was like the scientist where they needed to hear the reasoning why, and they would go and attack it. Do you think that those categories exist with learners or do you have your own set of categories? like, this, this person is, is like those other 10 that I've coached. So that's the category that I'm going to approach her with. Yeah. A lot of those make sense to me. I don't have it systemized in that way.
But I do really want to spend time understanding each person individually and asking, you know, how can I be, how can I help you today? How could I be a better coach for you? And there's going to be times where they'll say things as like, doesn't quite align with our principles here. And that's for like, like, okay, I got to do some more education. Here's why. Here's why we will do things a little bit differently than that. Or how can we meet in the middle or, but yeah, no, I think those.
Makes sense. We've experienced versions of that, but it's interesting how someone could be a warrior in one space on the court and then in a different environment, you know, socially, they're totally different. So people can really have multiple of those, maybe archetypes, and it could be dependent of the environment you create for them or the exposure they have. So I think I'm a little wary of like totally boxing someone in.
Mark Burik (33:34.818)
You know, but, I think it's helpful to understand and to learn and to listen and. But yeah, I like those. I mean, I connected with the ones you said. At the very least, if you take a look at athletes and you go, they're going to fit into different learning or instruction categories, then at least it continues to say. I have to be an adaptable coach. have to be somebody that changes for the athlete versus.
it either live or die in our program. And we're going to sacrifice that, you know, we're going to sacrifice losing players for the people who like, this is my way. This is my way. Yeah. Yeah. I think that's a good point with, with all these personalities and all these kind of archetypes you said is as a coach, are you, are you able to allow them to express who they are? You know, and that's that adaptability adaptability piece. If you're
Just, know, I'm a soldier coach. Like I give instructions and I want them to follow orders. And there's someone who's an artist like that is going to be pretty uncomfortable. they're, they're going to, they're going to like, everyone wants to fit in. So they're just going to follow orders and do it. Or there, you know, there might be some, budding back and forth, but they're not going to be able to express themselves and feel the freedom and the autonomy that humans really crave. So yeah, I think that's.
The art of coaching it so it's so hard because every year every team every camp there's new unique personalities that you get to try to figure out how do I bring the best out of this person? Or how do I be the best guy to be the best? At at helping them, but you know, be their best. Do you think that young coaches struggle with that? I feel like I was kind of a cocky young coach coming out of.
college then like went through the gold medal squared system and I was like, okay, this is how we do it. And then I would approach my club practice and almost interrupt somebody who had been coaching for 20, 25 years and be like, Hey, we should do it this way. And she's like, you've been coaching for two years. I've been here for 25 years. Like don't interrupt my practice. And then I'm sitting there mentally going like, they're doing it wrong. You know, do you think that young coaches
Mark Burik (35:59.668)
struggle to adapt to that and follow up question. What are your biggest battles when you hire assistant coaches or the most time that you spend on new hires and current people on your staff?
Yeah, well, the first part, yes, I think that probably young coaches and old coaches, we can get really set in our ways and really have our blinders on. We don't know what we don't know. That's where it's helpful. That's one of the hard things with coaching is you don't get feedback, right? You're the one who's generally creating feedback and you don't see all these blind spots. I think especially when you're inexperienced and you think you know it all, I'm definitely guilty of doing what you described.
and yeah, so I think that's where it's helpful to have resources like this. And, and I think it's a big, big challenge with coaching is it's a really, really important profession. Like the example, you know, my daughter now in sixth grade. We, you know, I just went to her back school night and I think the six, her science teacher had like maybe two master's degrees.
You know, I got her teaching credentials. She's all this education. She's she's trained for years to be to be a teacher. My wife is a doctor. She went to med school for four years, residency for four years. And then coach, it's just, yeah, here you go. You played volleyball. OK, you get to go coach them. And and I think the coach, like my daughter's coach, has a bigger influence than when she goes to see the doctor. When she goes to the teacher, like the coach is going to make the bigger impact on who she becomes in her relationship with.
with sport and with movement and with relationships. And so I think it's a big challenge that we don't have enough education. We don't have enough respect, maybe pay for the position, you know, to really value it. And so then, yeah, you get young kids like us who think we know it all and went to one clinic and yeah. So yeah, I think that's just the challenge of it. Like there needs to be more education. There needs to be more conversation.
Mark Burik (38:09.58)
And there's lots of literature that can educate us. It's just we don't have the systems in place. So the second part on assistant coaches, what was it specifically like hiring process or what? What's your what's the most time that you spend or what are what are the biggest challenges that you've experienced in getting a coach to be on your system or when you hire them? Because on on our list, we've also got a bunch of club directors and head coaches who are now they've got a lot more players signing up and.
all of their head coaches of their other teams that they can't focus on. Like they're having trouble growing because they can't get their other head coaches or their assistant coaches to coach the way that they coach. So do you have advice for them in terms of training staff and what your biggest battles are when you're bringing on somebody new to your staff? Yeah, I think for the club system, it's, I mean, I've started to observe as my daughter has done some indoor club.
It just, doesn't feel like there is any coach education and I'm probably over stereotyping, generalizing, but it just looks like, yeah, my coach did this, so I'm going to run this drill or I saw this on Instagram. So I'm going to this drill. It doesn't seem like there's some sort of philosophy that is guiding how this club works, you know, and the philosophy doesn't have to be rigid, just general, like
Here's some general concepts that we want to be about as a club, whether they're behaviors, you know, here's how we treat people. Here's how we, you know, clean up our space here. And then also like, here's what some things that have to be in an effective practice. I don't see a lot of that. And I get it. Cause, it takes a lot of time. Like you'd have to, and a lot of understanding and a lot of respect for the profession, which I don't think that's always there either. So all that combination of things, but I think if.
club coaches invest in that more. Like let's pay for Mark Beard to come out and educate our coaches so that we're all on the same page. And, you know, he's gonna present some ideas, but we're gonna have a conversation as a group to discuss, like who do we wanna be? How do we wanna act? How do we wanna run a good practice? Then I think we're setting ourselves up for a better space and for us to be more aligned philosophically as a program. For me specifically, I'm very lucky. playbook or a binder that you give?
Mark Burik (40:31.086)
to a new hire and say, here's our philosophy. We're going to work through this week by week or day by day. And I'll expound on each page or each chapter that you go through. I've got one of your old players, Marine. And for the first time as an employer, I think I'm closer to doing a good job. Instagram advice, but somebody was like, hey, my employees, I used to just give them a spreadsheet. And I was like, yep, that's what I did.
And then he goes, now we have a 90 day training process and you know, the first 14 or 30 days are with me one -on -one. I realized that to get everything that I've learned in 10 years of doing this, plus the previous 15 in volleyball, I've got to be able to give that to somebody and get them thinking closer to the way that I'm thinking and give them all the education that I gave, but giving them a spreadsheet to learn that doesn't count. So I've been having like eight and 10 hour days with.
Marine trying to say, here's everything in our company, everything we've tried, everything we failed and the little bits of success. And finally, I think like I've fairly equipped somebody with good knowledge, but it took so much investing of my time where I couldn't be doing all of the things to grow the business. But the investment in this time means that now like our company can be a little bit bigger from there. And so we had to build this whole spreadsheet and a whole cycle. I used.
chat GPT to help me out and organize it. But do you have a binder or a protocol or a training system for your coaches and players? Yeah, it's a little bit easier for me. You know, that was just, I have two assistant coaches and I've got more time. so yeah, I have a coaching manual that we'll go through, but we'll read a book together. So we read a book and go through it.
It's called how we learn to move by Rob Gray. It's on the kind of ecological dynamic stuff. I recommend every coach. It's a little bit tense, but it's. It's strongly recommended if you're interested in some of the concepts I was talking about at the beginning. We I have some video series. Forgotten Franz Bosch who goes through some of the. More movement side like understanding anatomy and movement that will go through.
Mark Burik (42:57.662)
I also have a series on motivational interviewing, which is more like this psychology side of things. So we do, I mean, we try to do lots of development as a staff throughout the year. And have lots of conversation, but it's easy for that stuff to get lost behind the, got to do this itinerary by this flight. Plan this practice, you know, get this meal, this official visit. That stuff can get lost, but for me, it's really important and in my hiring process.
The most important thing for me is to hire someone who's a learner, someone who's curious, someone who wants to grow. And I've been lucky where the assistants I've hired, they remind me, hey, we haven't done any development this week. So you get that culture going, right, where you're pushing each other to be growing, then it becomes systemized into how things work. But it's very difficult because, like you said, when you're doing that, you're not growing your business, which is, there's sacrifices you make with it.
But I think it's so important and, and it's so fun. Like that's what makes coaching fun is when you're growing and learning, improving, you know, it keeps, keeps you hungry. so I recommend it for clubs and for anybody. Yeah. It's when you stop learning and you stop feeling improvement or fresh ideas that life, everything just gets stagnant. I think that was the end of my AVP career where I was just like, in order to get this one more point per match.
I'm going to need to work on it for another seven months. And there are other parts of my life where I'm just so rapidly seeing like big jumps of improvement. And then I just kind of lost interest in competing, because I had other things that felt like they were growing and stacking faster. And that's when I was just like, I think I might be done. And I didn't really want to let it go. I wasn't sure. I was kind of like a two year battle of when it was ending or not, but I looked at where all my time.
where I chose to put all of my time and it was not in practicing. started showing up like just before practice instead of the half hour before practice like I used to. I was like, that's an indicator to me. know, like that's an indicator that I'm not into it in the exact same way. And it had happened over the course of months and months, but I was like, yeah, I think, I think I'm good with my playing career. Like we're out. And then the idea of leaving for however,
Mark Burik (45:24.046)
however much time and then, you my family's back home and like missing out on the first year with my daughter. If I'm going traveling for four days at a time and bringing home 200 bucks. I think there's a real, it gets a stigma, but there's an upside to quitting. you know, recognizing like your time is limited and if you're don't have the same hunger and it's not helping you grow in the same way, then yeah, it's time to, to find something that excites you.
And I people look down on that, but it's like, no, like now, you know, I'm investing in something that I'm so excited about. that's, I'm waking up. I think that's like to me, the sign of a good life. I wake up and I'm excited to do, to take on, even if it's, you know, work, but I'm, excited to do the work that's in front of me. Like there's the work that's in front of me I'm going to do it as well as I can. I've recently gotten into bouldering. indoor rock climbing. I'm a hack, but like, but it's.
It's reminding me of, you know, first getting to be a volleyball player, right? Going to bed thinking, okay, how do I figure out this V5 and taking videos? you start seeing the puzzles in front of you and you're like, you start doing the handshapes. But that's an exciting feeling, right? And that's that feeling. What it really is is a representation of, feel like I'm learning and I have things that I can really get better at and I can strive towards. And it's, our, yeah, like our lifeblood. It's what makes living fun. And as we see what people retire and
and die two weeks later, seems like, I mean, you know, there's lots of people retire and they find a new, new hobby, a new thing that they, but having that, that thing that you wake up and take on whatever it is, if it's meditation, if it's doing taxes, if it's climbing rocks, like whatever, you know, if that's what excites you, like that's a good feeling. I think that's when you found a good space. Okay. Well, I want to be respectful of your time, but I could ask you questions for hours.
but I think I've got just three more if you've got time for that. Yeah. Yeah. I got, yeah. Like 15 minutes. Okay. so the first question is absolute turnoffs and turn ons for somebody who's trying to be, trying to come to your program, get your attention. Like as a player who's trying to get recruited or a parent who's listening, who's understanding the recruitment process.
Mark Burik (47:50.796)
What are the absolute do's and absolute don'ts? Like something that lights you up and say, that's interesting. I might start paying attention to her or something that goes, we're good. Never talking to you again. Yeah. That's interesting to think about it that way. Turn off. Yeah. I really evaluate like the sort of teammate someone is. Like is this, I did one of the best parts of college coaching. I get to choose the people I go through life with. Like I get to choose the coaches. I get to choose.
The players of just if it seems like someone who wouldn't be fun to be around. I mean, if they're, know. They're filled out, how's right? I could could probably deal with it at least one one of them. But but generally, you know, you go, that's just not the sort of person I want to go through life with. They'd probably have a negative influence on the people around them. I think that you see that with the limited touches that you get, are you calling coaches and saying what?
What type of person is this? you talking to her teammates? you so from the gold middle square camps? And I think you did a bunch of those indoor camps as well, but you go into a town or a high school and you know that all the parents are kind of caddy behind the scenes. And I always saw a direct translation from how the parents talk about the club, each other and the people on the team and how the players acted towards each other. So there were like schools and towns.
that I was going, I would just skip this entire town or the school because of the culture of the parents that I already see. So how do you figure that out with such limited touches? Yeah, it's hard to probably mess it up a lot. And even when you're evaluating in person, people are going to be on their best behavior. So you can miss a lot of the stuff you're talking about. What you said is really important. Talking to their club coach with transfers. It's something, you know, calling the college coach.
We most of us have good relationships and are good about it. Or the other, like somebody who's played with them. I mean, just yesterday I was asking one of our girls about a recruit and she gave me like her insight. And it's interesting. A lot of times it's not asking like, how's her cut shot? Like it's like, okay, what's the, you know, what sort of human is she? How would she fit in this program? Like, she thrive? Would she, would she add value? And you get those answers pretty quick.
Mark Burik (50:17.464)
from people. It's harder with club coaches because there's an agenda there where they are excited if one of their kids commits to you. But most of the time, I mean, you great people, know, Matt Olson and Patty Dodd, who, you know, they're just going to give it to you straight. Like, here's, you know, here's what I see. Here's here's how she is. And and that goes so I mean, you could boost someone up like so much when I hear, she's just out of repractice. I have to, you know, I have to stop her from training.
She's the best teammate like in tournaments. She's nonstop. Like, my gosh, I her as, you know, a B for us and now she just went up to an A and then, know, you hear the opposite where it's like, yeah, like she's kind of missing half the time and, you know, not always the nicest people around her. Okay. We're going to pass. Yeah. So that I really rely on that and building those relationships as a coach is important as a college coach. Cause I think people, parents might forget that yes.
You, John Mayer are recruiting essentially someone who you're going to live with, like not, not a roommate per se, but basically a roommate who you just don't sleep in the same room with for five years, four or five years. Yep. Yeah. The team was at my house Saturday. mean, they're around my daughter all the time. You know, these, these are important relationships and important parts of my life and, and, my family's life. My family is such a big part of our.
our team. So yeah, I think that's a huge part. mean, you want to win. We're competitive. So ideally you find that combination of someone who's a learner, someone who's eager to get better, someone who's obsessed with the game and has a level of ability. So yeah, it's hard to find all of that. But if you don't have the first part, like someone who's a fun person to go through life with, then it's not the job I want to be a part of then.
How did they make themselves stand out? I teach players to do what I've done in every job internship that I wanted. Just if they don't answer or if you get kind of crickets, because I understand that you and your staff might get thousands of emails or videos a year. How does somebody stand out immediately for me when I, when I hear players say, well, well, the coach never called me back. Yeah, that's cause they've got thousands.
Mark Burik (52:46.542)
of people who are going to email them again, email them again, force them to say, no, we're not interested. And then then move on. Don't treat silence as they're not interested because if we look at your inbox or your coaches inbox right now, it's probably flooded with, you know, any number of Instagram videos from girls or YouTube highlight videos. So that's one of my advice to them. And you could tell me if I'm giving it to them wrong, but also how do they
separate themselves from the pack instantly if you've never seen them. Yeah, I mean, I agree with the first point. There's been times where, you know, I get one email or one here and there from a person. We spend all this time and then they're like, we're like number 10 on their list. I wasted all this time. They weren't that interested. So it really helps me to know if I'm going to invest time that they are very interested in LMU. So that helps a lot, you know, and just familiarity with their name, seeing those emails come through.
helps if you send a video, make sure that first clip is the best clip of your life. mean, we're, you know, we're going through video and we're, mean, unfortunately, when I first started the job 10 years ago, was like, I'd spend the whole time watching every clip and going back. And now, now I hate to say it, but it's like, I watch a couple, know, you can pretty quickly, you start to get jaded with that. You got to like work through the weeds. First eight seconds of a video.
make it pop, like personal introductions, get your good grades, just make some popping your best highlights. Then you can sort of saddle into something else in the. Right. Right. Yeah. Put the other stuff later. Yeah. Your best, like Bally bounce, run down a line shot some, you know, your, top highlight. and then I think really the biggest piece for me is what we talking about before is your coach and it's gotta be genuine, but then reaching out, you know, what some of the best players we've gotten.
is because the club coach has said, John, you really should check out. Like, there's something here. I strongly recommend. Now, if that club coach does that over and over and the kid is not at our level, then it's like, I lose that. But yeah, I think asking your coach to be just authentic and genuine, like, hey, would you just speak on my behalf about who I am? And that that I'm to give a little more weight to. Like, that's that's interesting. I'm I'm going to follow up.
Mark Burik (55:11.726)
So yeah, think those are some of the, yeah, I think the importance of the highlight video, especially the first couple of clips, that's a big one. And then I guess the last one I was gonna say was, when I used to observe and recruit, I would watch more from like the GMS model of, that's gonna, know, that movement's gonna be hard to change that platform, man, that's gonna take me a while to get them into our model. And now as I've shifted my worldview, it's more I'm looking, that's a creative solution. That was an interesting.
idea in that situation. wow. She decided to do that. That's really cool how she found a way out of that, you whatever situation or she was bold enough to, you know, run a back set and or faking on to not just creativity for creativity sake, but that it's like they're making solutions on the court. You're seeing them move in effective ways that are, yeah, and they're willing to be a little bit creative. Do you think that the
Brazilians learned that early or accidentally just all their practice styles stumbled on that where we're going to put you through thousands of reps. We're only going to teach you about technique if it's broken. but rep it out until it just feels good. And the result is correct because, and the stereotypical Brazilian coach is like high reps, little to no feedback until you just make it happen.
Whereas I think American coaching is a little bit more conversational as a stereotype. And then the European would be extremely technical technique everywhere. But do think that Brazilian just touched on that? And that's why as a country they became successful or is it just the number of players or what? Yeah, it's interesting. It's hard to know. Yeah, the cultural influences, like why, why was that the case? I mean, you think of the classic like Brazilian.
the kids in the favelas playing tons of soccer with bare feet and figuring out all these skills without being coach reliant. Maybe that has an influence on how we're just, we're gonna try to replicate that. But yeah, how does that stuff emerge? It's interesting, a lot of times it's not like, let's look at the research on skill acquisition. Like it's just cultural, right? The way the society grew or the coach before did something and we'll just follow that.
Mark Burik (57:33.868)
And I think there's aspects like good coaching, good coaching, there's aspects of all those models that are effective and ineffective and that could be improved. and, and in my model too, like nothing, I don't think we found the optimal coaching model yet. But I think it's, good to observe all those and see what works and what. You know, it's also what did just. Brazil have a lot of interest in the sport and high quality athlete pool to choose from. So hard to parse out like what was.
actually effective and what wasn't. Yeah, because all these different coach styles, feedback styles, being friendly with your players or like, you know, the Eastern European just yelling at your players all the time. Gold medals go around the world. Everybody's winning them. So all these different styles are somehow producing their own unique results. And the best we can do is, all right, take a look at science. Get as close to that as as we can or as close to the best information.
that we have. again, I don't think just relying on what your own personal thoughts have attempted to figure out and just have conversations, watch other people. Like that's why I love my camps, especially the seven day camps when we can. When I barely coach, I just go and I sit in the private lessons with like Marine, with DJ, with JM. And I go, how are they saying this? What different words or metaphors for learning can I?
Add to my tool belt just so that I have something else to give an athlete that after 99 tries with all of these different words or methods, it doesn't work. And then finally on the hundredth try, because I've got that giant tool belt now, that's when we need it. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. I don't know if we do enough without observing and I found it really interesting to observe different disciplines. A lot of times when you observe volleyball, you're really tuning into the specific volleyball stuff, but I've been able to like a little bit of baseball.
some different environments where then you're just watching like, what is this, how are they making the player feel? How are they structuring? How are they organizing? You're like looking at, I think it's great to do both, but that's, I think it's a great way to learn. And then I think what you're saying, the reflection piece to actually after a session, we're good at, especially our society is like, you just checklist, like what's the next thing? What's the next thing? But to stop and pause and like reflect, like how did that go? Where did I, where were my mistakes? What could I do better next time?
Mark Burik (01:00:01.39)
Like that's when you get in that loop of actually improving. And the paycheck's not always there to say like, okay, you're getting paid, you know, 2 ,500 as an assistant coach for this semester. Doesn't really cover the gas or your time, but you've, you've got that. then to decide to improve, if you want to get to the upper echelon of coaches, yeah, you've got to put in the extra study learning time, et cetera. Yeah. Yeah. There's no, there's no degree for it. Right. So we got to.
We have to manufacture our degrees. wish there was, yeah, I wish we had more systems in line, because we talked about the importance of coaching, but we have to create our own learning environments because, yeah, I mean, there is, you know, there's some like B -CAP stuff like that, but I don't think there's enough in terms of, yeah, enough in terms of like formal education and how to, you know, so yeah, think us being aware of that, that there's lots of,
Like we aren't prepared enough for this profession, the importance of the profession. So we've got to create our own learning environment. And if you do that, I think it could probably be better than a college course because it can be experiential and you can. But is that why you created your podcast, your brains out? Was it, slightly selfish into saying, your initial thing? I'm going to teach everybody that I.
everybody what I know, just so that it's documented, it's out there and the world has good information. Or were you starting a podcast saying, I'm going to find a cheat code to learn from as many people as I can, like I'm making my own university course. Yeah, I didn't I didn't have any sort of vision for it. was like Billy was just like, he's always been someone when he was interested in something he wants to create it like he like movies in high school. So he'd make movies with his friends when he was written books. Now he likes books. I'll just write a book.
So he was just, we were starting to get into podcasts, starting to, you know, come to our attention. like, Hey, if you're going make a podcast, what would you want to make it about? Really into coaching right now. Okay, let's do that. I, you know, I thought we'd do it once or twice and that was it. Now reflecting on it 10 years later, I see the benefits of it just through dumb luck kind of stumbled across it, but that every week I have a development opportunity built into my week. You know, if we're to put an episode out, I have to reach out to someone and ask questions.
Mark Burik (01:02:29.664)
And learn from them and, then, you know, I got to prepare for the, I've got to read their research article. I've got to read their book. I've got to read their interviews. So I've got to, there's a lot of stuff that goes around prepping for it, but all of that is coach development. Like it's time built into my week that if I hadn't, yeah, you know, I'd be doing the other stuff that's part of coaching the itineraries and the official visits. And so it's been a entirely selfish act and I'm thankful for it. think I've.
grown a lot as a communicator. I'm stumbling here, but I'm an introverted person. I'm not the most communicative, outgoing. And even just doing the podcast has helped me be a better communicator with my players, like practicing those reps of trying to explain coherently what I believe. So there's been all these benefits, but there was no vision for it. There was no like, here's the master plan. It was just me and Billy just hanging out as friends.
Just kept going. It's a good way to do it. Okay. Final, final, final question. and this is selfish. so I've got a daughter now she's 17 months and thank you. Thank you. we're getting into some, you know, motor learning and teachers and technique, but the thought of watching ill -prepared coaches in the future.
How do I emotionally either stand aside or add without being the parent that the kid looks to in the stands for better advice and their coaches are giving them? How are you dealing with that? And do you have any advice for me or any other coaches out there who also have kids that they now have to hand off to other coaches? It's brutal. I'm currently going through it.
tears me apart. mean, you can see my obsession with coaching and how much I respect it and how much I think it matters. And I'm observing some things that are frustrating to say the least. I mean, I would say initially first, just coach as many things as you can. If you have the time, I think it's just such a, especially when they're young, such an amazing experience for you and for them. And then you can use all of your knowledge and put it to work and create fun environments for kids. So that'd be my first like, I do.
Mark Burik (01:04:54.636)
do as much as you can there. Yeah, I think it's a really fine line. mean, the way I'm not saying I'm doing it right, but what I've done is I've just been a fan and I'm there to watch and I'll mumble behind my breath or no one can hear it. And I'll get frustrated when we go home and talk to my wife and actually this, this, this, but not in front of my daughter. And I'm there just to support her and, you know, how was practice? What was fun today? Awesome.
What do you want for dinner? You I try to stay out of that. So you're not jumping on the bandwagon of putting the thought into your son or daughter that this coach is doing something wrong or teaching wrong. Because to me, like, once you start saying that, my daughter is going to lose whatever faith she might have had in that coach, it's going to be worse. Like to be a worse athlete for a bad coach, like,
Okay. You can still be a great athlete for a terrible coach and you'll, you'll, it'll still take you somewhere. But once they lose faith in that leadership and they're just there being, everything's wrong anyway. Like my dad knows. Yeah. Yeah. That's the worst case scenario. Like being bought in on a bad system. Humans are great learners. Like they're going to learn as you're bought in, maybe not the most effective level that you're going to learn. But if you're skeptical of a bad system, then you're going go nowhere. I can't say it hasn't rubbed. mean, I'm talking coaching, you know,
it's probably rubbed off a little bit and she's got a probably compared to any 11 year old, she has a better understanding of what an effective practice would look like. So can't say it hasn't rubbed off at all. I've tried. But yeah, I think as much as they can, I try to be a fan. I try not to criticize the coaches in front of them, in front of her. And now I've offered to do some education and without, know,
Totally like, it's up to you guys, but I'm happy if you know, really passionate about coaching. If you're interested as a club, I'd love to have some stuff that I could do. And so I'm actually going to do something with one of her clubs, but most mostly I've just played with her in the backyard and we have some fun and try to make the game fun. If she wants to, if she doesn't want to, that's most times she says no, but sometimes she'll play. And then, yeah, I just go and sit in the corner and cheer and.
Mark Burik (01:07:18.254)
don't say much. Yeah. Just, I think that's, it's hard though. It's hard to your tongue when you see some, I mean, there's obviously a line where I would step in. There's some stuff I wouldn't, but it's got nowhere near that. But it's hard to sit back when you feel like there could be such a more enjoyable, more fun, more learning filled way. But that's probably, to do that with my, you know, my brother was having trouble with his daughter's club and he's like,
You know, I don't know volleyball enough, but I know that spending 30 minutes talking and having 10 person lines, where like my daughter's gotten now 16 or 20 opportunities to touch a ball in a two hour practice. goes, I know there's something wrong. I don't know how to fix it. And I was like, try a soft way. Like try just saying like, man, I listened to this.
Awesome podcast where I listened to this awesome like video and saw these cool cool drills and just to maybe softly Get them hopefully learning like lead a horse to water Say at least there's a coaching podcast out there There's you know now what five or six good volleyball specific coaching podcast that people can tune into But to step in there and take over and I always tell parents hey
If one of the best ways that you can get involved, if you are at practice, don't sit on the side, shag balls, ask the coach, do you need me to feed or throw in any balls? Right? So that like, at least they think, maybe I have another arm here for the first time. And that might double the repetitions of the kids, but the parents that just sit on the side. Okay, cool. You're supporting your girls, but if you can find a way to silently be an assistant coach.
And then volunteer, you've definitely upgraded that because then that coach doesn't feel trapped in being the only arm in the gym and the only one who can toss balls or enter or lead. And now we can have two lines instead of one thing. So I told him to do that. Just like, Hey, if you're at practice, volunteer your time and just say, do you need me to throw or serve any balls for you? Yeah. No, I think that's good advice.
Mark Burik (01:09:39.404)
Well, it's a fine line. It's a hard. don't I wish I had a better answer because you can overstep it and just. You know, you are a parent, you're not the coach and you could come across like trying to tell the coach what to do. But I think that with the way you I think that was a pretty sensitive way to do it. You know, how can I help? I have a question, maybe asking a question or two. Why are you doing it this way? Just curious. But yeah, that's it's tricky and it's.
I wish I had a better answer because I'm tearing my hair out some days. Such is life. Yeah, I'm not, not looking forward to it, but I'm like, all right, for the next 10 years, I can, I can give all of the reps and design little fun games in our living room that will, you know, benefit as much as possible. And then letting them go, I'm always like, do I just coach all of her teams? Yeah, as much as you can, would.
Cool. Good advice. Well, John, thank you so much for the surprise visit. Super appreciate you. I've always respected you as a player and as a coach and as somebody who's creatively gone their way into so many different adventures from podcasting and coaching clinics and everything. for all the times we battled and all the times you kicked my ass on the court. Well, you got me plenty too. once maybe? Once or twice. And that was it. And that was after.
lot of butt -kicking, that's for sure. Still stings though. I remember the St. Lucia, I think. the Continental where I had Stafford? Yep, me and Ryan. Yep, and I hit a high line and I janked it and it like went off the fingers and I was like, no, and then I Stafford saved the play on my match point. I was like, one high line, just get it over him and then Ryan touched it. I was like, no. Well, anyway.
Thank you so much for your time. And is there anything that you would want to share with our audience other than I will recommend to everybody go like if you're listening to this podcast, go download, your brains out, listen to all of it. Tons of great information, but is there any other endeavors that you're getting into or ways or reasons people should and would want to reach out to you? Yeah, I never have anything to sell. I'm not on social media, but I do care a lot about coaching.
Mark Burik (01:12:07.234)
I've been recently doing with some clubs, some coach education where I've come and presented some of these ideas, both experientially and also information. Like all of them I've done, for free. So if anybody wants me to, I'd be happy to come work with a club and talk coaching. And I'm available email or phone just, yeah, I love these sorts of conversations. They help us grow. So if anybody has questions or wants to talk coaching, I'm in. Cool.
Maybe we could run a coaching clinic together at some point. Yeah, it'd fun. A couple of features. That would be cool. All right. Awesome. Well, John, thanks so much. Again, appreciate the time and great hearing from you. Great seeing you and congrats on all your success. Thanks. Thanks again. Bye. See you, Mark. See you at home.
